[, Music, ], so [, Music, ] welcome to the scott harness podcast. Well, hey! How are you guys man? We are glad you have decided to join us today today we’re going to be talking about something uh, that’s controversial! Um we’re going to be talking about gender!

We’Re going to be talking about what the bible says about that. You know um. As always, when we’re in one of these conversations um, we love to have an audience, that’s constantly growing, and so for you to join us is great we’d love for you to like this video click like on it. If you desire to to continue to get, you know content from from what we’re doing you want to know when, when a video is going to be dropped, you can click the bell um, you can. You can also subscribe and uh and that’ll help us kind of uh continue to grow our audience as we go forward.

You know i want to say this and i want to give a disclaimer before we jump into this. First of all, this is not a scientific community trying to have a discussion about gender. That’S not what we’re trying to portray ourselves as being we. We are part of a church, we are spiritual and we believe in the word of god, but i do believe that it’s really important for us to protect the opportunity to have a conversation about gender and talk about we’re going to talk specifically about transgender. And how does that affect and us, and how does god’s?

What does god’s word have to say about that and you’re going to be surprised, maybe at what god’s word does say about that, and i think you’re going to discover that as we go forward. But i want to say this more than anything else you know: jesus was for the marginalized jesus swore the community of people who were hurting in pain, and he showed and demonstrated compassion towards them. At no point do we want to have ourselves put in a place where it seems as if we’re not being compassionate. But having said that, god’s word tells us that we need to teach the truth and we balance it with love and that’s what we’re going to work really hard to do today is we want to talk about what is god’s word say, the truth about gender and Transgender and – and we want to balance that with love um, one of the things that is for sure is that every single one of us has fallen short of god’s goodness and glory. But he loves us and he and he made us in his image and we’re going to talk about that today.

And i’m hoping that out of this you’re going to get some good information for you to kind of put in your hip pocket to be able to carry around with you. As we look at god’s word about this and in the room, let me just kind of walk you around and give you an idea of who all’s in the room today first is kindle harness. Kendall. Is the campus pastor of our our cabot campus he’s going to be sharing with us some some his insight and he’s done quite a bit of research and we’re going to you know, look at some some issues there. Also in the room is karen peeler, hello.

Karen works in our counseling department, karen is a lay counselor and uh. She and her husband. Both uh lynn are such a huge part of our counseling team here at that church and we counsel dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of people and families and individuals, and we help people walk through and walk out of some some difficulties in their Life, so so karen’s in here with us, also brady, gill um. He is on the equipment and, moreover, brady also is going to be throwing some logs on this fire as well as we talk about gender and transgender um. All of us have desired to uh to you know to participate in this and we’ve done our due diligence and and kind of being prepared for the conversation.

So, let’s start off first with transgender, because we’re gon na talk about gender, but we’re really talking about transgender we’re going to talk about the effects of that transgender in the lgbtqia. Yes, acrostic is the t. It’S the t in that, and so it’s one of the larger groups in the lgbtq uh community and uh this community by the way, makes up about five percent of the total population um. So so it’s it’s not a giant group of people, but we have a lot being said and it’s it’s making a big splash. So we want to talk about transgender, in particular, um transgender.

By definition, what is trans, gender by definition, guys yeah? I got you, and this is from oxford language – dictionary uh, this as transgender is denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex. So so that’s what transgender is so so in essence, transgender has said that your gender and your biological sex um are not um. They don’t necessarily correspond correct. So basically, what they’re saying is that as a so i was born a male uh.

I have male body parts i have male chromosomes. I have a male there’s, a lot of things that differentiate me as a male, a male, but that doesn’t necessarily by that definition determine my gender that that’s my sex. So that’s the organs that i have the the attributes that i have the chromosomes that i have are determiners of my sex. But what transgender is saying is that my gender, though, is not determined by those things, so i can have all the male things. That’S my sex, but my gender is maybe female.

If i, if i desire to be considered female, if maybe i i feel myself more feminine than i am masculine – that’s not to me that there can’t be feminine males and masculine females, but i think what their the argument is is more so that, from the transgender Side of things and again, if this is not coming from like a perfect understanding, but just i’ve listened to a lot of people make this argument. And what they’re basically saying is that people are born with a sex and it is determined um, whether that be male or female, but then they get a chance to choose their gender, how they basically feel about that sex once they make that choice, that’s gender identity And then what they do from there is they do what’s called gender expression, which is how i express what i feel at that point. So i’m born with one thing. Then i have a feeling of another thing that i’m like i, i feel something different than what i am which would make me transgender, then, from there i have an expression. So there are people who believe that they don’t identify with their.

You know god-given sex when they’re born, yet don’t express that um they they suppress it, maybe or whatever, and then from there there’s another group of people that in that they have a god-given sex. They disagree with it and feel as though their gender is something different and then from there. They express that in that way, whether that be through dressing as a man dressing as a woman, hormone therapies, all different things like that that they could go into after that and that’s sort of the the basis of of not the argument, but more so the basis Of that thought – and i think it’s important because and karen – and i were talking about this before – is that when you talk about transgender things, the movement sort of thrives in ambiguity. So you have all these statements and these words and terms that are thrown out and you’re like well, does transgender mean you acted upon those feelings or is that transsexual and then then, what’s a transsexual or is that a transgen and who’s who is who and and There’S a lot of new terminologies, just kind of being thrown out there and then you’re, seeing this kind of the bad guy. If you don’t understand this terminology – or you don’t use it properly and i think in that it creates a really dangerous place, because a lot of people really don’t understand.

A lot of this is really new and when you talk about these, but that’s why i think going through and defining these terms is really really important, speaking of which, when when when did we see first see that even the term transgender? When did we see that? Come into existence, when do we start having this conversation, i know that simone de boulevare, uh 1948, is the first time that we really started diving into these gender studies uh and things like that in a paper that he there she published in 1948 um depending on So this conversation is new. I think that’s one of the things that we need to understand. This is a pretty new, the construct of of gender being separated from sexuality or your sex rather um, that’s a fairly new conversation, and so so everybody’s trying to get their brain wrapped around.

What’S being said in this on the secular level, but then i think also for those of us who are followers of jesus who believe that the bible is true. You know, i think, we’re at a place where we’re going. But what does god say and what does god’s word say karen we were talking earlier and i think one of the things that you brought up was really good, because you have a lot of experiences working with people directly, whether they they themselves are having struggles or They’Re having struggles with their kids and and you were – you were sharing some stuff that i thought was really good for everybody to hear yeah. I think any time this is brought into a counseling session for biblical guidance when a parent is struggling with a child. It’S important to remember that we react to that or interact with that with compassion and love and understanding to hear their story to see where they are in their life and then give them.

The truth, in god’s word, help them to understand what god says about gender from a christian worldview and identity is so so important. So when we interact it’s always from compassion and love, but also the truth of god’s word sure sure, and that’s so important, and i think that’s a big deal right now – is that i think that dealing and working with one another – and i think even one of The reasons why we’re having this conversation is we want to protect the right um to have the conversation. I think it’s hugely important that as we talk about gender and we talk about how it relates to the bible, we need to hear that you need to hear what god’s word has to say: you’re, going to hear a lot of other things out there and and We’Re not in the business of saying no one’s allowed to say anything else, but this. What we’re saying is is that, in the same way that the conversation has other voices speaking into it, the christian community needs to be speaking in some of these conversations you got to protect and i think that’s the that’s the art of protecting the right for everyone That that’s why it’s it’s so important and again this gets murky between a a religious conversation, a political conversation, but at the same time, the reason why religion was so important early on in america’s history, and things like that is that they were moving away from a A community that was oppressing their ability to speak, so the reason we left england is because christianity was no longer freely to be expressed and when you’ve got this particular issue going on. There’S people trying to silence the other side on both sides and i think that’s a huge mistake – is that hey we should be able to sit down and have civil discourse and and civil disagreements and neither side trying to be silencing the other side.

Now, there’s got to be fact at some point in truth, and i think that that’s that’s got to be held above all else that it’s like. It’S got to be fact and true, but at the same time there needs to be able to be a opportunity for conversation right now in the world and in the media and on social media. There is none of that. There is no way to have a civil conversation or even a back and forth thing if you don’t agree with the particular narrative you’re out and that’s the part, that’s really difficult well and i think too, i think one of the biggest issues that that is important To us – and we just have to understand – is that not everybody’s going to agree with us, okay and and uh, and we don’t have to agree with everybody else. That’S also true.

I think, first and foremost for us, those that we hold the word of god is true yeah, so that’s going to be the foundation for the whole conversation, and so what we want to do today is let’s look into what does the bible say? You know specifically about gender um. First, let me just say this: i don’t and i’m unaware and i’m going to yield to anybody in the room that’s heard or seen. I can’t find anywhere in scripture where scripture ever separates gender and sex from the two they’re always spoken of as one unifying thing, and our world doesn’t separate those either. I mean really to be honest: it’s just not separated in any of our constructs up until now.

There’S an argument for it to be separated, but it’s not and anywhere else that in any documents, legal documents, birth certificates, it’s just not separated, but now there’s a growing movement to have it separated and there are some places that are playing ball. That way. So, as far as the bible’s concerned, um, our gender and and our sex are the same they’re one they’re unified. Now here’s what the bible does have to say about genders, because today not only do we have um this. You know gender discussion, but you’ve got such a myriad of different various new genders yeah.

You know we have genders now that you have gender fluid. You have you know it’s no longer they’ll say it’s no longer binary. That’S the words here: when you know it’s which is binary is zero or one um. It’S either it’s one or the other. It says that gender can’t be one or the other.

According to the arguments, we’re hearing, and so there’s there’s this incredibly complex, layered idea that now, whatever we come up with it’s something, but let’s go back to the truth. Let’S just go back to the truth, and let’s hear what god’s word has to say, and let’s just see what what the bible and again when i say truth for us, this is the truth. This is what we believe. This is what we trust. That’S what we understand this is what we lean into, but it’s also god’s word.

So it’s not our truth. It is the truth. That’S right, yeah, it’s what we hold as truth as well, so so um, so genesis, um, chapter five verses, one and two says this is written the written kind of descendants of adam. When god created human beings. He made them to be like himself.

He created them. Male and female and he blessed them and called them human, and so that’s one of the accounts. Now, if you go back to genesis, chapter 1 and verse 27, it says so god created human beings in his own image, the image of god he created them. Male and female he created them, and so what the bible tells us is is that number one is that human beings, unique of all other creation, was created in the image of god, and the image of god is fully revealed through male and female. You know one of our commandments is that we’re not to create a graven image of god.

God forbids us from creating a any type of graven image, in other words uh. We can’t create or craft a um, an artifact or or a sculpture. Anything that’s supposed to represent god, and one of the reasons why that we don’t do. That is because god has created an image of himself for himself and he’s done that through humanity, human beings are in the image of god. And specifically, the bible says that image of god is found in both male and female.

It’S the unity of those two, it’s the it’s the uniqueness of those two and the unique dynamics of a man and a woman. It’S in both of those that contains the image of god, and so one of the reasons why that we believe that we’re seeing so much of a of a confrontation of this is because this is this is going to confront the image of god. You know we’re confronting the image of god, and if we can confuse the image of god um, then we can confuse a whole bunch of other things and people go through life, incredibly, incredibly confused, so um. You know, and i have heard people say that you know the image of god is actually a you know talking about the authority we have, and i i would agree with that – genesis. 1, 26 and 27 talks about the authority.

That’S given, but if you look further in scripture i’ll give you an example, james chapter three and verse, nine, it says um with it. We bless our lord, our father and with it we curse the people who are made in the likeness of god. You know it’s not just talking about authority, it’s talking about, there’s some unique attributes that we hold that god made us in his image. That makes us precious makes us valuable. You know so as a follower of jesus as even we’re having these arguments and debates with someone else.

First of all, you have to understand all people were made in the image of god. That’S right whether they’re believers or unbelievers, whether they’re they’re part of the lgbt community or they’re part of the christian community. All people have been made in the image of god and so respect is so important. It’S really important, but one of the greatest ways that we respect and love people is, we give them truth and we don’t give them truth out of anger or resentment or bitterness, and we don’t look at somebody and say well they’re less than i am no. No.

We are made in all made in the image of god, and god gave his life for us, so that value is established as the baseline for any conversation that we’re going to have in this. So so, let’s talk a little bit more. Let’S talk a little bit more about gender, what am i, what am i missing? What what do we need to? What do we need to be talking about?

What do we need to hear as we’re as we’re walking into this conversation? What are things that you guys feel like? Is that that really need to be a part of this discussion i mean for me and then we can pop to everybody for me when i started studying this subject, i just started pulling research and materials, and i looked at scripture, but then i looked at just Scientific studies like what what do we have? What information do we have on transgenderism? If that’s the case, what is the?

What are the information about? What studies do we have what’s available um when it comes to, for instance, like an argument like smoking cigarettes, we have millions of studies, a myriad of different studies and different things like that on smoking cigarettes, the effects, the long-term effects, the short-term effects, all those things I’Ll say this, and i think this is important to note – there’s just not very much research on this subject. There’S just not very much, i mean there’s just a few studies, and one of the studies is the cohort study. It was 1973 to 2003. It was done in sweden and i do want to cite their conclusion to that study.

Basically, what they were doing was. Is they tracked people who had transgender surgery, so they did go fully transsexual? They had changed genders. They tracked them for 30 years and they tracked that group of people – and this was their. This was their conclusion.

It says, and this is real quick. It says this again. This is the cohort study. You can look this up online. It was done in sweden, 73 to 2003 is what it says.

It says this study found substantially higher rates of overall mortality, um mortality, death from cardiovascular disease, suicide, suicide attempts and psychiatric hospitalizations in sex, reassigned, transsexuals or transsexual individuals compared to a healthy control population. This highlights that post-surgical transsexuals are a high-risk group and need long-term psychiatric and somatic follow-up. Even though surgery and hormonal therapy alleviates gender dysphoria, it is apparently not sufficient to remedy the high rates of morbidity and mortality found among transsexual persons, improved care for transsexual groups. After the sex, reassignment should therefore be considered. That’S their final conclusion.

That’S a final statement of this study and i just sit there and i go man. This means that there’s a high-risk group of people who are making a decision that is life-altering, life-changing they’re in trouble. They’Re afraid and this study states they have a 41 suicide rate, 41 percent after we’re talking about after surgery. After all, these things, 41 percent of of transgenders commit suicide, and i go man. I think that, no matter what side of the aisle you fall on or what argument you want to pose, or or which way you lean or what it does, it doesn’t matter that is shocking and it should make everyone sit back and go wait a minute.

What are we doing? Let’S talk this through for a second: if people go through this and they suffer from all these different things, psychopathy and all the stuff they’ve got to deal with and then from there at the end of that 41 of them go ahead and take their own life. Even after hrt, even after all, these different things that should make you stop no matter and at least re-examine and go, let’s get some more research on this i mean we’ve got what four or five studies, maybe that are actually somewhat legitimate, and even those studies were Called out by major researchers, saying hey, this stuff is flawed from the beginning. Even this study was pulled and they were like hey man. This is not exactly how this works.

It’S really hard to track a group people when you have 41 of them to die all these different things. I think the biggest thing that that, for me, was a huge check, just in my own person, outside of the truth portion, which is that hey, you know, god speaks against this particular thing even outside of that, if 41 of a group of people are dying, that’s Messing me up yeah, i mean why do we? Why do we feel like the suicide, because i know the argument, i know the argument that’s being made, but why do why are? Why are? Why is the suicide rate higher among transgender?

Oh, the studies that i’ve read and the things that i’ve looked at don’t actually make any actual argument towards that, but i will personally looking at the information looking at those things. The argument that’s being made is that, basically, that transgender people and transsexual people who make these decisions are oppressed, and i think that i get what they’re saying there i’m like. Okay, i sort of can get with that. I understand they’re, not they’re, saying so they’re saying that – and i’ve heard this too, is that the argument is: is that they’re not being received and accepted right people aren’t going along with it correct now. So, let’s, let’s push pause before we go deeper into that and let’s let’s ask this question so or let’s: let’s paint a picture.

So what we’re saying is is we’re saying that um, if, if we’re dealing with transgender um, we’re saying that, if we don’t, if the community, because the community doesn’t necessarily all go along with it, that’s what’s creating this high suicide rate. Is that we’re not endorsing or embracing you know their ideas, um, but man? You could use that in a lot of different areas. You know of yeah, you know if you don’t believe if you don’t believe that that that changing your gender uh or changing your sex is a good idea, and if you don’t go along with that or believe that that that your gender dysphoria is actually um a Good thing and if you don’t go along with that, then they’re going to kill themselves. That’S a tough, that’s a tough pill to swallow, especially when you look at other oppressed groups and science.

You know i mean obviously, we’ve got studies and statistics on it, but but there’s certainly um there’s, certainly people that have been oppressed yeah. You know that you can look at their statistics and you don’t see the suicide rate at that level. Well, the problem that you run into is that when you say it, it is directly due to depression. Does that mean that no transgender person has ever killed themselves due to being made fun of whatever? No, i think, there’s absolutely that’s happened before i absolutely could see.

Could get with that? I could see that the problem that you run into is really two things for me. Is that one it’s like? Well, it’s all oppression. It’S like that would make perfect sense if the rate of people going back on this decision was super super low.

The problem is that there’s a lot of people who, after an extended period of time, which is why most of our studies are super short after an extended period of time, 10 years or more. A large percentage of these transgender people go back on the decision and they get out of hormone therapy and they’re, trying to reverse and they’re doing reversal, surgeries and they’re doing all these things. You’Re like wait a minute. Why are they going back if this is who they are? This is what they did, this blah blah blah.

Then why are we going back? What’S the what’s the going back part? So that’s a problem for me, so i i can’t believe that it’s only an oppression piece or whatever. The other thing is that a transgender woman won woman of the year two years ago. But it’s hard for me to believe that a super oppressed group is winning woman of the year, a national award um.

You know and that’s a transgender person uh caitlyn jenner, and so it’s like it’s crazy. If that’s that piece, the other thing is that you sit there and you go okay. Let’S look at oppressed groups for a second, let’s talk about some some groups that have been oppressed in our past. Let’S talk about um, the black community they were oppressed during. I would say all of us would agree during segregation and different things like that years ago.

Oppression was very, very deep and right now countries going through a lot of stuff. Because of that thing that happened back then, and some of the stuff’s even happened now. But you sit down, you go the black community, their their suicide rate’s, not anywhere near 41 percent you’re, like even during the height of oppression, even though the height of segregation not 41. So we’re saying that transgender individuals are more oppressed than black people were during the during segregation. Let’S ask this question so that we can start thinking through where people can kind of track us on this.

So so why? Why do we find uh such high level of depression? Yeah, you think in the in the in the um among people who are struggling with this karen? What do you think? Well, i think to generalize, you know is, is a a dangerous perspective sure at times, because there’s so many different stories and so many things that people go through.

But i definitely believe that there is oppression and there is bias in our world that people there’s microaggressions that people deal with every single day sure. So as as a follower of jesus, i want to be a safe place for people to come and have a conversation sure and the focus in these situations is, you know you have uh someone who’s struggling. Where can they get the help they need? Where can they go to find a safe place to have those conversations? Ask their questions about god’s word sure and then make an informed decision.

I think i agree with what you said earlier that sometimes we find ourselves in a place where we can’t have conversations anymore. Absolutely we can’t talk about these subjects because there uh is this force wanting us to make one choice or the other when the truth is. Is that each individual person has to choose the direction they go in their life and we’re each responsible for that? But we don’t all have to be the same. We don’t have to force the same, but we do have to hold fast to the gospel.

Absolutely because we’re followers of jesus, we do have to communicate the truth and give the information that people need to make that informed decision well, and with that i think i think you have to certainly need to go. You know like that. It’S this move of compassion that says, there’s a group of people that are suffering they’re, hurting, yes and we’re saying it’s oppression. It’S part of that yeah! Absolutely!

I think that’s absolutely part of it, but more than that, you got a group of people that are taking their own lives, they’re suffering from they’re on all kinds of antidepressants, they’re having to go through all these things and no matter if they were transgender or not. That should hurt your heart as a human being we’re christians and christians care about everything. Everybody thinks i’m a human being and if you’re a human being struggling with you’re on antidepressants, you’re thinking about taking your own life, i don’t care if you’re, transgender or not dude. We need to help like what can we do to make this? You know better well, and i think, and i agree i think when you look at the word of god, though, what we, what we have, though, is we have god establishing very concrete understanding of gender and sexuality absolutely, and he does that in relationships.

He does that within ourselves and on purpose and on purpose. That’S true, and i think the the moment we operate outside of that now that doesn’t mean that these that people are not legitimately having these feelings, that doesn’t we’re not discounting here and we’re, certainly not minimizing anything, and i think karen i made a good point – is That when you generalize what brought someone to a place that they’re at to struggle with their sexual identity or whatever that there is a myriad of variables that go to that, you know i mean i personally have counseled with people that they, their parents, experienced a brutal Horrible divorce and they were afraid you know, of of of a normal heterosexual relationship. They were concerned about that. I’Ve seen other people where um one of their parents was super, dominant and abusive, and that created a struggle. Others, you know they’re born and they’ve just got this there’s a propensity that they have.

You know, i think one of the things we can’t discount and and i’m going to use a word and this word’s going to seem harsh but but we’re all affected by sin. Every single one of us sin entered our world and, and it scrambled our eggs, to be quite honest with you, we we there’s not a single fiber of anything that we are that’s not affected by sin. Sin brings confusion. Yeah sin brings deceit. Sin brings um destruction.

It’S it’s separation, absolutely and – and so sin is constantly literally tearing at the fabric of who we are. We have a couple of choices with sin. We can surrender to it and we can pursue it in hopes that it’s going to fulfill what we desire, or we can look at sin and confront it and confess it and repent of it and turn to god and ask him for healing and to bring healing Into our life – and i think that’s where we are with this with the the transgender issue is – is that you really have one of two choices: either: hey i’m gon na i’m gon na i’m gon na err on the side of the solution. Like you talked about kendall, the solutions that are that are being given by secular community that says: hey. If you don’t feel right inside then, let’s change everything on the outside and if we change everything on the outside you’re going to feel great, but we’re finding that you’re not feeling great you’re, not not fixing it.

No and it’s not repairing or what i can do is i can put my life in the hands of an almighty god, and i can understand that. Maybe the discomfort that i’m feeling in this circumstance that i’m in is because god’s trying to bring about change because pain is god’s great tool. He uses pain to to change us and transform us and to turn us from where we’re going, and so i think sometimes we look for medication and i don’t mean literally medication, but we look for a way of medicating the way we feel so that um, we Feel better about where we are, when god really wants us to change where we are in the direction we’re going in it’s good. You know the bible says god’s goodness should lead to repentance, and so so god has this desire to bring about change. So i would say this to the person who’s struggling um.

I would say to you this. Is that we’re not discounting the struggle? We’Re not discounting the feelings you have yeah, but here’s what we are going to say. We are going to discount the pattern that the world is going to give you as an answer yeah. That’S right!

That answer. That answer is seldom if ever finds itself in a place and puts you in a place where healing real healing and hope can come from that only comes from god, um, and so you know as much as the world wants to confuse you with terminology, and, oh My gosh, this thing is complicated. I mean we’ve studied a bunch to just to try to get our brain wrapped around it. God is much more simplistic, but but here’s the reality. God is that healing hope and answer um and that’s what we need.

Ultimately, you know as much or more than anything else, what’s a what’s another something we need to jump on to what’s. Another factor we need to discuss is: what are we missing um when we talk about transgender and we talk about gender and what does god’s word say and what what should we be thinking about what maybe the people are tuned in and watching? What are? What are some things they should think about, because i don’t think there’s anybody here. You know, maybe you yourself don’t struggle with it, and that makes it really hard for us to get into the mindset of understanding too yeah.

You know absolutely. I haven’t had a transgender struggle. No, you know, i don’t know that struggle, but i do know people that have yep you know and that that’s heartbreaking. You know because i think one of the problems that we have is we’ve made sexuality and gender, an identity issue. Yeah and that’s affected our conversation yeah, you know our conversation now is different.

I can’t say: hey um, you know brady, you need to you know. Really you got to make a change when i say repentance, you know it’s kind of it almost feels like you’re being um, maybe insensitive and demeaning. When you say you need to repent of this because we see it as a lifestyle. God’S word paints it as a lifestyle, but they go. No.

That’S who i am. You know you know you’re asking you’re you’re confronting me yeah, you know, and, and that makes it where this conversation’s hard or there’s now. The unfortunate part is that, because this is so politicized, it is that we can’t even have a discussion about something that is personal without it becoming political and you’re like wait. A second wait. Wait a second.

This does not paint me on a political side or not politically. It’S like you believe that. Well, if you believe that now you believe this laundry list of other things that this particular side of this particular group you’re, like whoa, whoa, we’re just trying to talk about this issue where people are are feeling horrible and they’re losing their lives and things like they’re. Good they’re taking their lives and things like that, and we can’t even talk about that without that becoming this jumbo political issue. Where now we’re talking about like what i believe about, you know, voter suppression like what what does that have to do with this?

That has nothing to do, but i’ll tell you what that is, though, that is throwing something in the way so that we can never really get to the bottom of the issue. It’S it’s as we begin to go at it and if you begin to look at facts and you begin to look at studies and you begin to look at the science and then you also look at god’s word, you look at all those things. It’S very clear. It’S spelled out what the truth is, and i don’t think people, i don’t think people even people who are in this struggle. I don’t think they’re confused on that part.

I think the truth is there now feeling my feeling now is trying to be elevated to where it’s truth, but ultimately people are not confused on truth. The issue that we’re running into, though, is that they’re not confused on the truth portion, but now what we’re doing is we’re throwing all the other arguments in the way so that we never actually get to the truth. We’Re like oh well, well we’re talking about this and we bring up a point about transgenderism. We bring about this 41 statistic. We bring all these different things and then also we’re talking about you know, poll taxes and rights at the polls.

You’Re like wait, a second. What that has nothing to do with the arg, but what it does is it’s a distraction from the argument so that we never get to the bottom of it. We don’t ever get to the truth about transgenderism, because we’re talking about something else, political that somebody wanted to argue about, and it doesn’t make any sense, yeah and i think us getting to the bottom of help and hope. Yeah. Absolutely you know one of the one of the issues that stands out that i do believe is a distinct violation in scripture.

When it comes to this issue is, is that identity is is bestowed by god yeah? We believe that that god gives us our identity, and i think one of the things that we, where we get into trouble, is when we we ourselves try to become our own god and we want to give identity to ourselves. You know, and we take that out of god’s hands god’s, the only one that can can make us and he’s the only one that can create us and he’s the only one who can remake us. You know we are a new creation in christ. As a believer, we believe god changed our identity and and my identity right now, if you said scott, what’s your identity, my primary identity is i’m a follower of jesus.

You know that’s my number one identity now behind that, i’m a man, you know, and god established both of those. You know both of those were established by him, not by me but by god. Um now are there times when i don’t feel like a christian. Are there times when i don’t want to be a christian? Are there times that i don’t really necessarily want to do what god wants me to do?

Absolutely yeah certainly are there times that i want to go in a sinful direction. When god wants me to go and holy dread absolutely, and you know, i’ve got a choice either a i can say. Well, you know what god’s wrong and i’m right and i’m going to go the way i want to go and i’m going to alter the circumstances or i can say god’s right. I need to repent, regardless of how i feel the bible says. The heart is deceptive of all, above all things that cannot be trusted.

So so my heart sometimes takes me down the wrong road, and i can’t trust that heart. I have to trust. What’S god, what’s truth, you know, and god is the only one that can establish my identity? In other words, you know if we’re, if we’re non-binary in our sexuality, at what point do we at what point are we binary yeah? You know so i can’t change my species, i mean what if i said, i’m a horse, i feel like i’m in a horse.

You know you would you know, i would say i would think if i really believed that and i’m out there galloping around in the field, you know as a horse and i’m not trying to make a lot of anything. I’M just just saying you would see someone going man, he needs some some counseling some help. He needs some there’s a chemical thing going on something’s going on. You know you wouldn’t say: hey, let’s go along with this well and it’s the it’s the issue of, and then there’s this this again there’s this piece, the argument that says well: you’re, not hurting anyone out in the field. Thinking you’re a horse like you just it’s just you you’re just you know you’re, you think that, but but it’s not hurting anyone else, so go out there and have fun in the field.

You know have fun, do it um and – and i think that makes sense up until we start making societal changes on these things. For instance, when we’re talking about legislation or whatever else, those types of things become an issue. The other thing is this: is again it’s not an issue for you to be out there pretending to be a horse, but if, at some point a year later, you have to get on antidepressant meds and then you think you’re 81 percent start thinking about taking your Life and 81 of people start thinking about taking their life because they’re pretending to be a horse all of a sudden. It’S like wait a second, maybe letting people pretend they’re a horse in the field is not the best of ideas for them. It’S not really a concern for society anymore.

It’S a concern for that group of people that tend to be a horse, and let me say, i’m not trying to compare you know i’m not trying to compare the two, but i’m just saying that. I’M just saying at what point at what point. What is concrete and what is what is up for discussion? What, at what point? Do we say: okay, because up to this point all of human history um?

This is the first time in human history that we’ve said: men are not actually men, women are not actually women, um and that’s the first time we’ve really unpacked this, and this is really really new. This is really recent stuff and they would say well, no, it’s always been around not true. This is this is a brand new construct that we’ve come up with. You know it really didn’t even take flight until the 80s and 90s with um. What was her name?

Judith butler, so i mean it’s really it’s a wild way, so i think i think what we need to shift gears and jump into, though, is is: where do we find? Where are we going to find our hope and what, where are we going to? Where are we going to? Where are we going to find help yeah um with what’s going on? I know this.

I just i’ll give you an example. I have a let’s just say i have a friend um, real, close friend of mine and that that friend of mine is struggling um with their sexual identity. What what kind of counsel, what advice? What advice do i need to give that person? What do i need to say to that person um?

What direction would i give them yeah, i think before when we talked about you know, just with compassion and kindness uh a lot of times in the christian world. We assume people know things that they don’t it’s good, that’s good, so we should always have that teaching spirit, that gentle spirit that pleases the lord to just, listen and then respond with truth, and you know, walk the hard road with them. Yeah christians in our culture. Today there is a lot of pressure to conform to what the norm is, so we have to have a mindset that we’re more concerned about pleasing god than we are pleasing. People, that’s good, and if god’s word is true, then his word is true.

That’S right and in our homes we teach the truth about identity, we’re a safe place for our children to have those conversations because they go out into that culture every single day. So we don’t want to teach them that it’s a taboo subject and that they should respond with hate or judgment. What we want to teach them is that god had hard conversations when he was fully man on this earth with people. He had the hard conversations he offered grace and forgiveness, and then he kept teaching the gospel. So our focus is always what pleases the lord, and i think, sometimes we get wrapped up in culture with wanting to feel like we’re.

Making a good choice – and the truth is, is that choosing god does not always feel good, because we’re confronting our flesh and we’re confronting uh the norms of the world we’re living like jesus in a culture that is controlled by sin yeah. So there has to be that determination to say as a parent or a friend this is god’s word. This is my belief and if you are also a follower of jesus, then this is what god’s word says about this subject. I think for me, it’s, like you know, it’s life is intrinsically valuable to me, which means that there’s nothing you could ever do or be, or or whatever that would make me feel like your life, is no longer valuable that your life no longer has value. So that’s why, when we talk about abortion, i’m pro uh, not pro-choice.

I i am i’m for the baby pro-life sorry, i just couldn’t think it was blinking but yeah. It’S pro-life and the reason why is because men, every life is intrinsically valuable, every single one of them, whether you’re and it doesn’t matter what your qualifier is. It doesn’t matter if you’re sure you know on death row, it doesn’t matter if you did something terrible it doesn’t. Your life is valuable, um and so for me, that’s that’s always the place that i think that got where god’s heart is um. He cares about every single person, so when you’re dealing with someone who is walking through something like this, which, by the way sexual sin is sexual sin, so i don’t view somebody who’s struggling with their gender identity any different than i would someone who is struggling with Pornography um, it’s a sexual sin, regardless uh, so we’re we’ve got to deal with that in the same way it wouldn’t be like.

Oh, i feel like this is worse. It’S not worse. It’S the same, um sin is the same, and it does the same thing like you said earlier. It separates and destroys whether that’s telling a white lie or or or struggling with, something like that. It doesn’t matter it’s the same and it causes the same problems.

Um and so for me, it’s one of those things where, when we’re sitting down with someone who’s trying to navigate this, if someone is willing to sit down and willing to talk even if they don’t necessarily agree like they’re, just willing to at least hear both sides And us talk to it. That means god has given you an opportunity to really lead that person and guide them through this, this kind of really tricky and confusing issue, because our culture, like i said it, thrives on ambiguity. They they like it to be confusing um, and that makes it very difficult, and i think in there, if you get the chance to sit down with someone and they’re willing to talk, you are in an amazing place, even if they don’t necessarily agree. It gives us an incredible opportunity to show them god’s word. Show them god’s love, build a relationship where they can trust you uh, which is always my first move.

If someone is willing to sit down build a relationship of trust, you know build build trust with that person where they’re like hey this person’s, not going to be a pain in my rear and come in and just assault me with all these mean things, no matter How true they are it doesn’t matter if it comes in and you’re just mean, then that person’s not going to listen, they’re not going to want to hear – and i think in that, if we can build that trust at the same time being clear with clarity that I’M like hey, this is what i believe. You know that i believe that about this particular sin and these other sins. That’S not against you as a person, but i do believe this way being clear about those things at the same time, being able to walk with that person through that, i think, is a huge deal really with any sin, not just transgenderism but yeah with any sin. That’S how i would walk through it with them. You don’t you don’t want to come in with a a a couple, who’s living together before marriage and just assault them with the horrible words and call them names you’re like no they’re they’re struggling.

They need help getting through it you’re there as a guide to help them walk through this thing to get to the other side, to ultimately be in a better place to find help and hope, and so i think that’s the that’s the main thing with that. One yeah, absolutely, i think i think one of the biggest issues that we we want to discuss and i think, as we look forward and as we look into god’s word, you know one of the things that’s a big issue is is that we talked about identity. Earlier and identities, this is a core issue. We believe, when you look at scripture, that we’re made in the image of god so to understand who i am, i have to first start with with who, god is, and once we put god in the center of of of our lives and that he is the Ultimate shot caller in my life he is the lord he’s. My savior um he’s my he’s my leader um.

What he says. I pay attention to what he did make note of the life that he’s asked me to live, and so i think, as a christian one of the key um things that makes us different. Is that we’re not trying to find ourselves we’re looking for him first, and so once i understand who god is then, then out of that? I can begin to understand who i am but who i am is defined by who he is, and so, if we start with ourselves first and go man, i need to know my identity and that’s this real huge pursuit. We we see, and it’s not just in sexuality, it could be in anything it could be in the the pursuit of of our health or fitness.

It could be the pursuit of our career, it could be the pursuit of relationships we start with ourselves and we put ourselves in the middle of the universe, and the problem with that is is when i’m the center of all that i’m going to focus on. I’M. Never going to be fulfilled like i need to, because only god can meet the needs that i have spiritually emotionally and otherwise, and so for for as a christian, we put god the middle, and so god is god’s, the one he’s our lord. He he’s our our leader and our boss, in other words, and so he calls the the shots in our life. And so, when god’s, the subject – and i understand who he is and i explore who he is, then god will help me understand who i am.

But if i start with me and i go, what am i i don’t care, how many, how how differently you change the pieces of the puzzle or or what identity you know, moniker you put on it, you’re never going to be fulfilled, trying to focus on you. That’S good, your hope and your future is going to be focused on christ first and then out of what he said. You have to understand what you are because see: we’ve been affected by sin. Our image has been marred affected by sin, and so when that happens, we don’t really have good clarity as to what’s truth, and what’s the future looks like and here’s what’s bad, you can put a whole room full of people together that aren’t inspired by the spirit Of god, and aren’t led by the word of god and the whole room can be confused. So just because there’s a lot of voices speaking into something saying this is right and true doesn’t mean that it’s true democracy is not necessarily the ultimate pursuit of truth.

As we’ve seen with jury trials, we’ve had plenty of trials where someone was put on death row later we found out, they were innocent and the jury made a mistake. Volumes of people volumes of voices doesn’t necessarily deride is right, god leads us to truth, and so god number one we need to know who he is yeah the identity of god, and god revealed himself exclusively and completely through jesus then. Secondly, we don’t know who we are, as god defines us and when we see that, will there be conflict, absolutely god’s going to ask me to be and do things that i don’t necessarily want to. But it’s not about my feelings. It’S about the faith that i have in him now it’s about the identity of who he is and how i trust what he has to say and i think, when we deal with sexual issues like this, especially sexual identity issues, it’s no different than anything else.

I’M either going to trust what i want, what i feel and the direction i want to go with my life, which, by the way, god gives you that right to do that, yep freedom, freedom and by the way, um oppression from the church. When you think about you know, gosh look at the the people that have been oppressed. I’Ve been in church, my entire life um. I was in church as a little bitty kid. My mom took me to church.

I was saved when i was seven years old. I’Ve been a pastor for 25 years. I’Ve been in hundreds of meetings and conversations, maybe thousands of meetings and conversations with church people there’s never ever been a single time in the church that i can ever remember. Anyone ever saying: hey, let’s you know, get together and go beat up the transgender person or let’s go, let’s go persecute the gay guy or let’s go burn down. I’Ve been in more than a few conversations where we’ve said hey this person is in this lifestyle.

How can we love them and how can we demonstrate our love towards them and how can we? How can we be a help? That’S what i see so because someone disagrees with you does not mean it’s persecution. Absolutely you know it may be the most loving thing they could do yeah for sure. Well, i told somebody a while back.

I said the guy that’ll tell you that you got a booger hanging out. Your nose is probably your best friend. You know the person says your flies down, i mean that’s the person who really cares about you know what i’m saying. That’S true. I mean that’s so so this is.

This is a compassionate, you know absolutely as we look at these things, so let me throw let me throw something out there because we’re getting close on time. So someone says i’m struggling with my sexual identity, my sexuality and sexual identity. What is your advice to them and i’m just going to listen, they’re struggling with it yeah i’m struggling with my sexuality and my sexual identity. What would you tell them? What would be your advice to them?

Yeah, i’ve encountered this quite often uh working with people and hearing their struggles and their temptations. You know, as kendall said, uh sexual sin. Anything outside of god’s design that draws us away is birthed from inside. Yes, so it’s a desire of the heart. It’S a temptation!

So you know discussing those things and helping them understand that we do have an enemy in this world. Sure sure – and he knows us very well and if we’re not aware uh more aware of the work of god within us than the world around us, we’re going to fall into traps constantly, because the culture we’re in is enticing us to be like them yeah. So we want to be more aware of what god is doing in and through us than what the enemy is trying to lure us into in the world and especially if the person comes in and says hey, i want free from this sure you know i i Need some tools to get past this help me understand sure. So. The first step, of course, is their personal relationship with god.

You really believe that god is real. Do you really believe that his word is true? Do you really believe that he’s working in and through you to perfect his will, what he has designed and purposed for your life, so that goes back to identity, solidifying, their identity and then helping them? Understand that we’re not inviting god into our life? He invited us into a relationship with him, that’s right.

So what i hear a lot in um in the conversations here recently is that people want to invite god into certain areas, but he can’t have their whole life sure. Well, god already sent the invitation yeah. You said yes, so now the next steps is to align your life with what his word says and that’s a lifelong process. You know in your book uh more than happy. You talked a lot about that.

How that relationship is a lifetime, so working through things can take some time and it’s a process and that’s okay, that’s okay, because the grace of god! That’S what it’s there for. Oh, that’s right! It’S our intentional effort to partner with the work of god in our life by our actions you know, faith without works is dead because we need to show the transformation power of god in our life and that’s the beauty of the gospel. When people come in, they ask their questions they get equipped and then the work of the holy spirit in their life, god brings the increase.

Then people around them can see that hey. This is a real thing. There is a life change through the power of jesus. That’S right, that’s good yeah! I think for me you know i.

I had a guy message me the other day and he just said man kendall. I’M struggling my faith like i’m just struggling my faith in god and uh, and he just messaged me just it’s just a place of. I felt like transparency, a place of honesty and and and humbleness and humility to to reach out and just say man, i’m just struggling uh. You know, he’d he’d had somebody his family pass away and and uh just was going through. Some things he’s amazing, struggling and um.

I would give him the exact same answer that i would give this person who’s struggling with their sexuality. Is there’s really three things that i recommend is number one be in god’s word and be in prayer every day, even if it’s just for a few minutes, yeah like there’s nothing that anyone can do better for you than god can like? Oh that’s, good amen. We shut him out and we don’t pray and we don’t read his word you’re, not giving him an opportunity to work in your life and i believe, there’s a lot of people who are living in spiritual deficiency, not because they desire to be there. But more so because they’ve shut out the one voice, that’s good!

That could really change our lives. I mean the one voice. You’Ve shot him completely out. You’Re like well, i don’t hear god well. Are you praying at all like even just tell god what you need?

Just do it every day, yeah just say: hey man, god. These are the things that are going on. Just tell him um, you know like well, he knows well yeah, but he wants you to tell him and then the second thing is that when you’re in his word – even if it’s it’s just a verse, it’s just the daily verse every day on youversion or whatever. But it’s the daily verse just be in god’s word, just let his word get in the scripture says you release his word and it will not return void. Yeah get in the word just in some way.

Let it end the second thing is be at church. I had a lady, i had a lady, no joke and she’s like my daughter’s struggling with her sexuality and she doesn’t want to come to church because she’s gone to a church reform been judged before i said that will never happen at that church. I said so. You can have my word, she can sit with me like it will not happen here ever um and so but be in church. Like the the best thing the church was not designed as a rescue place for the healthy.

It was designed as a rescue society for the sick. It is a place where we come together and i don’t have to put on a fake mask and be this pastor guy, but i can just be kindle and be screwed up. That’S good! It’S just part of it, it’s good um and you got ta. Take me as i am because jesus did so there’s that, but the deal is this, though, is that in in that be in church, be in church be in church.

The third thing is find somebody you can talk to and and vet that person make sure that it’s someone who’s going to give you christian counsel, that it’s going to matter and that’s why i recommend miss karen’s counseling department, all the time, because those people are people. You can trust they’re people that care about you and they’re people that care. About god’s word to know god’s word, and when you sit down one of them you can talk to them. You can talk it out. There’S someone!

You can trust. There’S someone! That’S going to speak god’s word to you, they’re, not going to tell you what you want to hear, they’re going to tell you what you need to hear sure and if you do those three things, it’s a big difference. I would tell that to someone who’s struggling with their faith in god has no transgender issue at all, not dealing with that or someone who’s dealing with with their sexuality or transgenderism or whatever they’re, like hey man, i’m struggling with this thing. That’S the way you fix it, though those three things do those three things and i’m telling you it’ll make a difference.

It’Ll make a huge difference, that’s good! I think the other thing that’s really important as we go forward, is that we, you know, especially when i’m talking to church leaders. I think one of the biggest issues that we face is that so often we’re trying to treat the exterior things that we see as the result of a heart issue, it’s actually bigger. So the one thing i would agree with the lgbt community on this is that i do believe gender is an interior thing absolutely, and i think i think this is an interior thing. It’S a heart issue absolutely and the bible has lots to say about a heart issue because people say well: does the bible have a lot to say about gender?

It does there’s so much to be said about the heart of man and uh, and so sometimes what we do is we we deal with the appearance and the behavior, and we think man, but those are symptoms of a deeper yeah, more more, a larger issue which Which has to do with the heart, and so i would just say you know if i was recommending you know talking to somebody that has struggles. I’D say you know, let’s talk about where your heart is yeah, let’s talk about where that is that’s good. You know, and i would say if i was talking to church leaders who church literally face these things – that’s right number one. I would, i would say, stick to the truth. Yeah that’s important, you know what does god actually say.

Don’T compromise the truth, because you’re wanting people to feel good about themselves, that’s good um kindness is not greater than truth. Truth is still greater than kindness. So sometimes we think well, i’m being kind. I’M listen! You!

You don’t want to pet somebody yeah through a circumstance. In their life, where god’s calling them to repentance, you certainly don’t want to be you don’t want to medicate them and make them comfortable with the direction that god’s trying to change in their life. I’Ve seen them towards destruction yeah, and i think the second thing. That’S really important is that i think, especially as as christians is, we need to earn the right to speak into these. Yes, tweets, um facebook posts uh those kind of things.

It’S not really, probably going to be the one that’s going to win the victory. It’S going to be real friendships. I had a man come to me. A number of years ago, um he’d been a pastor. He’D been removed from from his position in his church because of a homosexual relationship.

He had with somebody actually within the church and um real frustrated and angry at the church, and he came to me said you know. I just want to know what you think about. You know homosexuality. I want you to know what you think about sexuality and and things you say. I wonder where you’re, where you’re coming from this church, you know, and he was just he was just kind of gruff and i just looked at him.

I said: do you trust me? You know, do you trust me? He said he said well, he said i don’t hardly know you. I said right, i said so really what you want is you want to put me in a category, so what you’re doing is you want to give me an answer and i’m either a hater or i’m a i’m on the fan club and you want to put Me in one category or the other, i’m not really interested in being categorized, i’m not binary. You know, i said so i don’t.

I don’t want to give you. I said i said so what would it take for you to trust me? So i don’t know. I said: well, i do it takes time yeah it’s going to take some time. So here’s what i’m willing to do, i’m willing to make an investment in you as a person and earn the right to speak into your life truth, because if you know that i care about you, you’re going to listen to what i have to say.

You’Re going to know that i’m trying to guide you in a direction that you need to go and we did. We built a relationship over a number of months and a few months later he asked me the same question. I asked him, i said: do you trust me? He said i think i kind of do. I said well kind of might not get it.

I said i think you’re gon na have to take a little more now. So, let’s go a little longer and eventually you know we sat down and had a conversation about what god says about about sexuality and about gender and he listened um. He didn’t like it necessarily, but he listened and the reason why he listened is because i’d put in the energy and effort yeah, and so at that point he knew i cared about him. You know i was willing to care about you. This is not an argument to be won over the internet.

This is, this is going to be one of those things where we are willing to enter into the life with people and walk through dirty, difficult circumstances with them and not treat the symptoms, but deal with the heart yeah and understand my just yeah just sit down And just go: let’s just talk it through and and knowing where our limitations are exactly i’m limited in that i can’t change the heart of a person. No, but here’s what i can do. I can lead you to the one who does that’s right, and so that’s. What’S really important so if you’ve got somebody struggling with this you’re struggling with this and you’re going man, how can i be right with god? First of all, no god loves you.

That’S that’s number one, no matter what um and as you drive into that love love work to love. God back, you know the question the questions being asked today is not whether god loves you right. You know because other people say well, you know how could well, how can god love someone? That’S in that data? Oh, he can love him i’ll.

Tell you how much 2 000 years ago on the ball side of a hill demonstrates how much god loved people. But what’s the question is, am i going to love god back to love? God back means that there’s going to be times i’m going to need to make an alteration to my life into my thinking and to my processes and to the path that i’m walking yeah, because he’s asked me to yeah. That’S how i love him back. Jesus said: if you love me, you’ll keep my commandments.

That doesn’t mean that you’re going to walk in perfection. Jesus didn’t say i will love you. If you keep my commandments, he said if you love me, you’ll keep my commandments, and so one of the ways that we demonstrate love towards god is our obedience towards him. That’S good! That means that there’s times he’s going to ask us to do things that we don’t necessarily want to do.

That’S right, but here’s what i’ll tell you as you begin to walk in obedience, god makes a heart transformation in you and, what’s what’s crazy, is things that you didn’t desire at one time all of a sudden you began to desire and they began to feed you And you begin to fall in love with them. That’S doable plenty of people walk away from the lgbtq community every single year. It’S not publicized because that’s not popular. We see plenty of people walk into a relationship with jesus out of a lifestyle and we watch god restore them and we watch god do something great in their life and that’s doable and that’s possible. And but it has to exist in the atmosphere of truth and love.

Yeah truth is, this is what god says this. Is you know what god says about sexuality? It’S established, and it’s true, but but love is we’ll help you walk through it yeah you don’t have to you, don’t have to walk through it alone. You know we’re here together, um and we all will walk with a limp. All of us have something.

That’S right. All born into sin yeah every single one of us. So is it what else? What have we? What have we missed y’all?

What what is um? What is something maybe on this subject that we we didn’t hit didn’t go over um. I know we’re close on time. We got just a couple of minutes left um. I think when it comes to raising your children with an identity in christ, it starts when they’re really really young.

You know it has to be something that is in your home from the very beginning. That’S right, god’s truth is the truth about our identity, that’s right and then over time that equips your children to be able to live in the world, but not be like the world. It’S good, it’s good! So good! You know.

I want to say this and and are kind of jumping out of this and no way could we in one hour cover every facet of what’s going on in this um. But we wanted to start the conversation and i think it’s really important. You know, and i feel like that um maybe some of you needed to hear it – need to hear what does god’s word say. Um we didn’t want to say it in a confrontational way or a mean way. I mean i feel like that.

Our world is so contrasty between the antagonist and the synthesis everybody’s like on this side or whatever um. Our desire is on the side of jesus who loves the world and loves people and wants a relationship with all people and that’s the truth, and he wants a relationship with you. I mean he does he. He wants us so much that he gave his life for you and um, and so you know if we can help with that walk, we’d love to comments. We welcome them.

You know what you don’t agree with us: hey, that’s cool! Leave! A comment drop a comment down there. Listen it’s totally! Okay, it’s conversation, yeah, we love it.

We love having the converse and you can say, hey what, if what about what you all didn’t say anything about, because there’s no way we can cover all things, but we would love to see it we’d love to see what you have to say absolutely and if We can extend that conversation or if we can help you or we can walk with you um, we would love to um if we can give advice, we’d love to do that. If we, you need counseling, we’d love to do that. However, however, we can help you we’d love to do that so um. I want to say this um god so loved the world that he gave his son so that we all might have a relationship with him. That’S huge y’all, it’s really really big and he didn’t give a son because um he was an option.

He gave his son because it was needed. A sacrifice had to be made because we’d mess some things up and that’s all of us by the way. So just know this that when you find yourself in a messed up situation, you got good company because humanity has been messed up situations from the beginning, but we have a really good god. He loves us, and so so my prayer, for you is, is that you’ll be encouraged this week. My prayer is that we’ve helped you kind of understand some things.

If there’s things we missed, leave us a comment and we’ll reply to those individually, but until the next time we have a chance to talk. I pray god blesses your life, richly [, Music ], you

Read More: Scott Harness Podcast – #013 – Felon to Freedom…

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